Tiger's Fury attack speed increase - Guild Wars Forums

mikey · Aug 16, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26

In the Quick Shot thread in the Campfire, I was informed that Tiger's Fury actually increases attack speed by 50%, not the stated 33%. While I am not prepared to believe this as of yet, I am wondering if anyone has come to this conclusion?

Charles Ensign this question is more or less directed at you because you seem to know a LOT about the game mechanics and such.

I was arguing that Tiger's Fury + Shortbow is actually 1 shot per 1.5 seconds, not the commonly believed 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. If you want to see my proof go check out the LMM's Quick Shot thread.

If it is +33%, then I am correct in saying it is 1 shot per 1.5 seconds. However, I have been told the description is incorrect and that TF increases by 50%. The person said they timed it to be 1.33s not 1.5s as it is supposed to be.

So if anyone knows anything related to this issue, please post here

. If the +50% is true, ANet either needs to fix their calculations or fix the skill description.

VGJustice · Aug 16, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

hmm.... I'm torn on this one. I used Tiger's Fury for a while, and it did seem faster than Flurry, but I may have been imagining things...

I'd also like to know if anyone has tested it.

derrtyboy69 · Aug 16, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

it is 33%, at least with axes. i tested it and it is the same exact speed as berserkers stance, lightning reflexes, and frenzy. i may go test shortbows now

VGJustice · Aug 16, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

ok, cool, Frenzy is definetly the same speed as Flurry for me and my swords. So, if A -> B, and B -> C, then A -> C.

Right, thanks.

wolfy3455 · Aug 16, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Your math is a bit off. With it being +33.3_%, it does come out 1.33. Technically, it seems like it would be 1.34 though, but I'm going to assume it means by a third with the 33% for the sake of simplicity.

Its starts out as 100% of standard speed if you don't have any speed changes.

100%-33.3_%=66.6_%.

The standard 100% speed of a shortbow is one per two seconds. The delay bewteen shots is reduced to 66.6_% of the previous delay when TF is on.

2*.66_=1.33_

sino-soviet · Aug 16, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

No, I am pretty sure that the attack speed is 33%. However, I think Ensign meant the damage output is 50% more, not attack speed.

Aug 16, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

yep, dps is increased 50% due to 33% IAS. Thats what is usually meant.

mikey · Aug 16, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Well the basis of my maths was this.

If you normally attack once in 2 seconds (0.5 attacks per second), an increase in attack speed of 33% will mean you attack 1.33 times in 2 seconds. Using this logic your damage output is also increased by 33%.

Doing 1 attack per 1.33 seconds is a 50% increase in attack speed.

Because that equates to 1 *(3/4) attacks per 1.33 *(3/4) seconds, which is 0.75 attacks per second, which is a 50% increase in attack speed, not a 33%.

A 33% increase in attack speed will get you a 33% increase of dps, a 50% increase of attack speed will get you a 50% increase in dps (logically). So can someone please explain how a 33% IAS will get you a 50% increase in DPS?

Red Locust · Aug 16, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

Well the basis of my maths was this.

If you normally attack once in 2 seconds (0.5 attacks per second), an increase in attack speed of 33% will mean you attack 1.33 times in 2 seconds. Using this logic your damage output is also increased by 33%.

Doing 1 attack per 1.33 seconds is a 50% increase in attack speed.

Because that equates to 1 *(3/4) attacks per 1.33 *(3/4) seconds, which is 0.75 attacks per second, which is a 50% increase in attack speed, not a 33%.

A 33% increase in attack speed will get you a 33% increase of dps, a 50% increase of attack speed will get you a 50% increase in dps (logically). So can someone please explain how a 33% IAS will get you a 50% increase in DPS?

You'd think so, but that's not the case. If you do the math, it turns out to be 50% increased DPS with 33% IAS.

Take a timeframe of, say, 5 seconds. Then calculate how many attacks you'd be able to fit into that timeframe with normal attack speed and with 33% IAS. Multiply by the average damage per attack, and you'd see that it is 50% increased DPS.

mikey · Aug 16, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Let's use a timeframe which is divisible by 2 and 1.33 and 1.5.

A 36 second time-frame. In this time you will shoot 18 normal arrows, 27 arrows with 50% IAS, and 24 arrows with 33% IAS agreed?

Let's say each arrow does 100 damage (a simple round number).

In 36 seconds, normal arrows will do 1800 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 50dps. 50% IAS arrows will do 2700 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 75dps. 33% IAS arrows will do 2400 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 66.66 dps. So...

normal = 50dps
50% IAS = 75dps
33% IAS = 66.66dps

Red Locust, I'm still getting logical answers... if what you are saying is in fact true, then it means I've done something wrong in my maths. If you could point out my error then I'd gladly believe you. I still can't get +33% IAS to equal +50% DPS, so I still believe the skill description or the game calculations are incorrect. The game calculates it to be +50% IAS, but the description says +33% IAS.

Red Locust · Aug 16, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

Let's use a timeframe which is divisible by 2 and 1.33 and 1.5.

A 36 second time-frame. In this time you will shoot 18 normal arrows, 27 arrows with 50% IAS, and 24 arrows with 33% IAS agreed?

Let's say each arrow does 100 damage (a simple round number).

In 36 seconds, normal arrows will do 1800 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 50dps. 50% IAS arrows will do 2700 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 75dps. 33% IAS arrows will do 2400 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 66.66 dps. So...

normal = 50dps
50% IAS = 75dps
33% IAS = 66.66dps

Red Locust, I'm still getting logical answers... if what you are saying is in fact true, then it means I've done something wrong in my maths. If you could point out my error then I'd gladly believe you. I still can't get +33% IAS to equal +50% DPS, so I still believe the skill description or the game calculations are incorrect. The game calculates it to be +50% IAS, but the description says +33% IAS.

Whoa, hold on, you really got me confused with those numbers.

From the looks of things, it seems you got some of your numbers mixed up. Our bow's attack speed is 2 seconds. With 33% IAS, that attack speed becomes 2 * 0.66 = 1.33 seconds.

Now, in a 36s. timeframe, you'd get:
36/2 = 18 normal attacks
36/1.33 = 27 attacks with 33%IAS

2700/1800 = 1.5, or 50% increased DPS.

mikey · Aug 16, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Ahh I see the problem, and it is on your end

. A 50% IAS = 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. A 33% IAS = 1 shot per 1.5 seconds as shown in my maths a couple of posts above.

Normal = 1 shot per 2 seconds

IAS of 33% = 1.33 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.5 seconds

IAS of 50% = 1.5 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.33 seconds

Now do you see how I got my numbers? I thought about it logically, and instead of deducting 33% from refire rate, I increased the number of arrows fired by 33% which is logical.

Now do you see why I believe ANet stuffed something up?

Caelus The Fallen · Aug 16, 2005, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Yup, logically rate of fire is shots per second; ANet have used the reciprocal: seconds per shot, thus an increase in speed of 1/3 (33%) gives 2/3 attack speed, and following reciprocity translates to 3/2 damage-per-second (+1/2), or an increase of 50%. This is counter-intuitive.

mikey · Aug 16, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Once I get complete confirmation, I'll send something to GW Support about the error.

Red Locust · Aug 16, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I'd say it makes sense the way it is. An attack is, for example, the act of swinging a hammer. The attack speed is the time it takes to swing that hammer, in this case 1.75 seconds. Increasing the attack speed would therefore mean decreasing the time it takes to swing the hammer. Increasing the hammer's attack speed by 33% would have to mean reducing the time it takes to swing the hammer by 33%, hence speeding up the attack by 33%.

In the example mikey used:

Quote:

Normal = 1 shot per 2 seconds

IAS of 33% = 1.33 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.5 seconds

The attack animation here takes 1.5s as opposed to the original 2s. That's a 25% increase in the speed of the attack, as opposed to the 33%IAS that was implied.

But anyways, this is all semantics. It could be interpreted both ways, and you can't really claim ANet screwed up.

wolfy3455 · Aug 16, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

Now do you see how I got my numbers? I thought about it logically, and instead of deducting 33% from refire rate, I increased the number of arrows fired by 33% which is logical.

Now do you see why I believe ANet stuffed something up?

Most games I've played have been based on a delay rather than a attack/second setup. Increasing the attack speed should logically decrease the delay since it is increasing the speed of the attack rather than the output. A.net just followed the example set by other gaming companies.

hobo13 · Aug 16, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

add serpents quickness and tigers fury, as well as QZ, put a zealos on your bow and you should be shooting faster than the game can animate it. you will stand still and arrows will shoot from you.

Fear Is Weekness · Aug 16, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

off topic i kno but i cant get an ancer to this......since last night when i went to dl the new patch i cant connect to area net....WHY????

Ensign · Aug 16, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

33% faster attack in Guild Wars means a 33% shorter refire time, which translates into a 50% faster attack speed. Basically it's a shortening of the attack animation. Yes, this confuses the hell out of everyone who knows what speed is, but that's how it works.

Peace,
-CxE

mikey · Aug 17, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Well thanks for clearing that up, 33% faster attack speed does not equal 33% shorter refire time. That's where the conflicts arose, people claiming they are one and the same. ANet should atleast change the description to "reduces refire rate by 33%" or "increases attack speed by 50%" yes?

Aug 16, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26	#1
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Tiger's Fury attack speed increase In the Quick Shot thread in the Campfire, I was informed that Tiger's Fury actually increases attack speed by 50%, not the stated 33%. While I am not prepared to believe this as of yet, I am wondering if anyone has come to this conclusion? Charles Ensign this question is more or less directed at you because you seem to know a LOT about the game mechanics and such. I was arguing that Tiger's Fury + Shortbow is actually 1 shot per 1.5 seconds, not the commonly believed 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. If you want to see my proof go check out the LMM's Quick Shot thread. If it is +33%, then I am correct in saying it is 1 shot per 1.5 seconds. However, I have been told the description is incorrect and that TF increases by 50%. The person said they timed it to be 1.33s not 1.5s as it is supposed to be. So if anyone knows anything related to this issue, please post here . If the +50% is true, ANet either needs to fix their calculations or fix the skill description.

Aug 16, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17	#19
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	33% faster attack in Guild Wars means a 33% shorter refire time, which translates into a 50% faster attack speed. Basically it's a shortening of the attack animation. Yes, this confuses the hell out of everyone who knows what speed is, but that's how it works. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Aug 16, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31	#2
VGJustice Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tyria, cappin' ur bosses Guild: Boston Guild [BG] Profession: R/W	hmm.... I'm torn on this one. I used Tiger's Fury for a while, and it did seem faster than Flurry, but I may have been imagining things... I'd also like to know if anyone has tested it.

Aug 16, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36	#3
derrtyboy69 Grotto Attendant Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Clouds Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS] Profession: Mo/Me	it is 33%, at least with axes. i tested it and it is the same exact speed as berserkers stance, lightning reflexes, and frenzy. i may go test shortbows now

Aug 16, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38	#4
VGJustice Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tyria, cappin' ur bosses Guild: Boston Guild [BG] Profession: R/W	ok, cool, Frenzy is definetly the same speed as Flurry for me and my swords. So, if A -> B, and B -> C, then A -> C. Right, thanks.

Aug 16, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39	#5
wolfy3455 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005	Your math is a bit off. With it being +33.3_%, it does come out 1.33. Technically, it seems like it would be 1.34 though, but I'm going to assume it means by a third with the 33% for the sake of simplicity. Its starts out as 100% of standard speed if you don't have any speed changes. 100%-33.3_%=66.6_%. The standard 100% speed of a shortbow is one per two seconds. The delay bewteen shots is reduced to 66.6_% of the previous delay when TF is on. 2*.66_=1.33_

Aug 16, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29	#6
sino-soviet Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Israel before, CA now. Profession: R/Me	No, I am pretty sure that the attack speed is 33%. However, I think Ensign meant the damage output is 50% more, not attack speed.

Aug 16, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04	#7
Blackace Guest	yep, dps is increased 50% due to 33% IAS. Thats what is usually meant.

Aug 16, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46	#8
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Well the basis of my maths was this. If you normally attack once in 2 seconds (0.5 attacks per second), an increase in attack speed of 33% will mean you attack 1.33 times in 2 seconds. Using this logic your damage output is also increased by 33%. Doing 1 attack per 1.33 seconds is a 50% increase in attack speed. Because that equates to 1 (3/4) attacks per 1.33 (3/4) seconds, which is 0.75 attacks per second, which is a 50% increase in attack speed, not a 33%. A 33% increase in attack speed will get you a 33% increase of dps, a 50% increase of attack speed will get you a 50% increase in dps (logically). So can someone please explain how a 33% IAS will get you a 50% increase in DPS?

Aug 16, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#10
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Let's use a timeframe which is divisible by 2 and 1.33 and 1.5. A 36 second time-frame. In this time you will shoot 18 normal arrows, 27 arrows with 50% IAS, and 24 arrows with 33% IAS agreed? Let's say each arrow does 100 damage (a simple round number). In 36 seconds, normal arrows will do 1800 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 50dps. 50% IAS arrows will do 2700 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 75dps. 33% IAS arrows will do 2400 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 66.66 dps. So... normal = 50dps 50% IAS = 75dps 33% IAS = 66.66dps Red Locust, I'm still getting logical answers... if what you are saying is in fact true, then it means I've done something wrong in my maths. If you could point out my error then I'd gladly believe you. I still can't get +33% IAS to equal +50% DPS, so I still believe the skill description or the game calculations are incorrect. The game calculates it to be +50% IAS, but the description says +33% IAS.

Aug 16, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38	#12
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Ahh I see the problem, and it is on your end . A 50% IAS = 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. A 33% IAS = 1 shot per 1.5 seconds as shown in my maths a couple of posts above. Normal = 1 shot per 2 seconds IAS of 33% = 1.33 shots per 2 seconds = 1 shot per 1.5 seconds IAS of 50% = 1.5 shots per 2 seconds = 1 shot per 1.33 seconds Now do you see how I got my numbers? I thought about it logically, and instead of deducting 33% from refire rate, I increased the number of arrows fired by 33% which is logical. Now do you see why I believe ANet stuffed something up?

Aug 16, 2005, 09:15 AM // 09:15	#13
Caelus The Fallen Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glasgow Guild: Voice of the Darkness Profession: E/Mo	Yup, logically rate of fire is shots per second; ANet have used the reciprocal: seconds per shot, thus an increase in speed of 1/3 (33%) gives 2/3 attack speed, and following reciprocity translates to 3/2 damage-per-second (+1/2), or an increase of 50%. This is counter-intuitive.

Aug 16, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23	#14
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Once I get complete confirmation, I'll send something to GW Support about the error.

Aug 16, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29	#17
hobo13 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Brutananadelweski clan Profession: N/	add serpents quickness and tigers fury, as well as QZ, put a zealos on your bow and you should be shooting faster than the game can animate it. you will stand still and arrows will shoot from you.

Aug 16, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31	#18
Fear Is Weekness Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Dragon of Cthulhu Profession: N/Me	off topic i kno but i cant get an ancer to this......since last night when i went to dl the new patch i cant connect to area net....WHY????

Aug 17, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02	#20
mikey Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Rainbow Crapping Pandas	Well thanks for clearing that up, 33% faster attack speed does not equal 33% shorter refire time. That's where the conflicts arose, people claiming they are one and the same. ANet should atleast change the description to "reduces refire rate by 33%" or "increases attack speed by 50%" yes?